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TheMeInTeam
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PostSubject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns!   Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:56 pm

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either way it's useless to go up there so that's out of the equation I'm sure you can at least agree on that!

If it looks like they're at least staying there, your best bet is to support them by trying to cross. Where you go to do so depends on what the enemy team is doing. If they're shooting near boltok/gorgon you have a pretty easy path to look for a cross. Same deal for spawn (if they're at spawn you're mostly going to be blocking a flank and only going up there if it looks like a MASS push is coming toward balcony). If they're in the church you're in good position to pin them there, even if there is only 1 other good player.

At the very least, you can toss a smoke and pick up digger/torque, and then camp the balcony with them or spam them into the church hoping to get lucky (more so for digger). If the other side is in there and you have stock, they literally can't win unless your team goes in.

The only way going into the church is a reasonable course of action is if you're sitting on a BIG lead and looking to end the game. In that case by all means. Otherwise, they HAVE to come out. It's up to them. If they don't they lose. Force that on them. Punish people for playing a "hide inside" strategy. The "cowardly" players (in the words of wookiee) are not the guys on the balcony where everyeone on the map can see and shoot at them. The cowards are the ones hiding, unable to shoot anybody but also unwilling to move. If they come out gnashers blazing, good for them. Most don't unless you make them. Don't reinforce that behavior by letting them get cheap points and pretending they played well. Force them out and punish it.

I've clutched so many rounds with 1 other guy in my party that way. They hide in church with less #'s, and we sit there waiting for them to come out into mortars, torque, lancer fire, etc with only 2 possible routes both involving lines of sight. If you're trying to win, there's no excuse to go in there.

Similar concepts apply to other maps, though less so. High ground on overpass is so strong it's broken. Flame nades on checkout are unbelievably annoying and can cross a surprising % of the map. The sniper positioning on gridlock can easily lock down and cross every other power weapon on the map if you have just 1 guy on the ground near them to cross them (though holding that position is very difficult until you deny ink!). I could go on, but the basic concept is to put the other team in a position where you can shoot them and they can't effectively shoot you or your teammates without being exposed from cover on at least 1 side. There are areas on each map where you can easily lock down most movement and make enemy team movement very predictable.
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PostSubject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns!   Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:14 pm

Shotguns have been the go to since 2006, people are trained this way my friend. Spotting and intelligent play are the way forward
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PostSubject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:06 am

U can tell who played gears 2 prior to gears 3 by da way they play. gears 2 is based off of da gnasher. Shotgun battles are fun and take skill and aim and movement. Dats all I will say
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PostSubject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:11 am

tymboslycebouncez wrote:
U can tell who played gears 2 prior to gears 3 by da way they play. gears 2 is based off of da gnasher. Shotgun battles are fun and take skill and aim and movement. Dats all I will say

All fights in gears that don't involve power weapons on 1 side take skill, aim, and movement. Those of you who actually pull out AR's know it.

What ARs can do that the gnasher can't is lend support fire or even kill people at long distances. I don't see a lot of players dropping people from halfway across a map...not nearly as many as I see try it. That's probably because aim/actives are lacking.

I don't deny skill required in gnasher battles. That doesn't mean pushing 2 people with the gnasher in TDM is intelligent.

All pick-up based FPS that I've experienced are about map control and the choices a team makes. Gears is definitely no exception. That's all 3 gears, not just GoW 3. Good active lancer shot placement was deadly in GoW 1 and GoW 2 also, especially when crossing someone etc.

Using the gnasher for close range fights situationally is for intelligent players. When you watch games between good organized teams, you'll see them use all of their weapon options as situation dictates.

Using the gnasher as a primary/exclusively is for players who lack concept of map control + lack a sense for the location of the other team and don't want to think...or for noobstomping a lesser team.
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PostSubject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns!   Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:29 pm

shotguns are the best without them you are no one
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PostSubject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns!   Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:45 am

nulgath wrote:
shotguns are the best without them you are no one

Shotguns are the best in close quarters.

A player who refuses to use AR at all in most game modes is garbage. What's the point of a shooter if you deliberately spend long periods of time actively avoiding shooting?
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PostSubject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns!   Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:07 am

TheMeInTeam wrote:
nulgath wrote:
shotguns are the best without them you are no one

Shotguns are the best in close quarters.

A player who refuses to use AR at all in most game modes is garbage. What's the point of a shooter if you deliberately spend long periods of time actively avoiding shooting?

as much as i dont want to get drawn back into this debate. why do you insist on calling every player who plays differently then you a bad player? if everyone played exactly the same then this would be a boring game.

you probably have no idea how good anyone on this forum plays, so its not good to go around calling everyone 'garbage' (to use your word) when they are playing how they want to play.

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PostSubject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns!   Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:14 am

BigStu4q wrote:
TheMeInTeam wrote:
nulgath wrote:
shotguns are the best without them you are no one

Shotguns are the best in close quarters.

A player who refuses to use AR at all in most game modes is garbage. What's the point of a shooter if you deliberately spend long periods of time actively avoiding shooting?

as much as i dont want to get drawn back into this debate. why do you insist on calling every player who plays differently then you a bad player? if everyone played exactly the same then this would be a boring game.

you probably have no idea how good anyone on this forum plays, so its not good to go around calling everyone 'garbage' (to use your word) when they are playing how they want to play.

I really have no horse in this race, but I felt I needed to pop in here and say that I totally agree with BigStu on this issue. All the different ways to play this game are what keeps it from getting stale. I can hang back and pick people off with a sniper rifle, charge in with a shotgun, or provide supporting fire to teamates with an AR. Just because someone doesn't agree with your style, it doesn't make them "garbage".

Ok, I'm out! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns!   Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:29 am

Quote :
as much as i dont want to get drawn back into this debate. why do you insist on calling every player who plays differently then you a bad player? if everyone played exactly the same then this would be a boring game.

you probably have no idea how good anyone on this forum plays, so its not good to go around calling everyone 'garbage' (to use your word) when they are playing how they want to play.

Why do you insist on claiming I'm doing something I'm not doing? I'm calling out one very SPECIFIC kind of player; the kind that only does ONE thing come hell or high water (IE refusing to use the AR AT ALL, which was stated clearly in the post you quoted...do try not to ignore such important qualifiers since doing so clearly causes you to believe I'm saying something I didn't). I've provided plenty of reasons why these players hurt their own team, something you've not really refuted. Instead you chose to attack the way I went about presenting my point, which is a valid thing to do in terms of attempting to change my forum behavior but doesn't really refute the point one bit.

Who did I call garbage? I targeted a very specific kind of player. Not just "people who play differently" Are you saying that you only use the shotgun and nothing else? I thought you said you didn't do that. I would assume every halfway decent player on this forum knows how and when to use the weapons. If they make different judgments in different situations that's one thing. If they make no judgments and always use 1 weapon, then yes they're probably garbage. Is that you? Who that is serious enough about the game to post on this forum does that?

Of course, you're perfectly fine with someone else saying that "without a shotgun, you are no one". Selection bias much? Why only call one person out? He made a MUCH more general statement than I just did.

Quote :
I really have no horse in this race, but I felt I needed to pop in here and say that I totally agree with BigStu on this issue. All the different ways to play this game are what keeps it from getting stale. I can hang back and pick people off with a sniper rifle, charge in with a shotgun, or provide supporting fire to teamates with an AR. Just because someone doesn't agree with your style, it doesn't make them "garbage".

Ok, I'm out! Very Happy

So, in other words you claim to agree with him but then spend a paragraph telling us that my point (not over-using one weapon to the point of hurting one's own team...and how does only using 1 weapon not make the game stale? You're clearly using all of them) is the one you actually practice and agree with :/.

Also, killing someone who is shooting at your teammate (on thrashball) from torque while in the concession area or mulcher spawn area isn't about "style". You have 2 choices there: you either shoot the guy you have a CROSS on, or you do nothing and then a decent % of the time your teammate dies while you contribute nothing. THAT is the kind of situation I'm griping about griz. I'm not angry because people use the gnasher; it's a good weapon. But when they have it out when they COULD have EASILY killed someone with an AR and refused to do so like some kind of dull-minded donkey...then it stops being about style and they start becoming objectively bad players.

You aren't going to run down the stairs and all the way to the middle of thrashball from concessions and kill someone with the shotgun, but you can easily fire an AR down there and change the outcome almost instantly from where you are. That's not style. There is one correct choice. Either you're fighting someone and can't help your teammate (moot point then), or you're choosing between playing well and playing poorly.
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PostSubject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns!   Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:54 am

i honestly dont think there is a player on gears 3 that REFUSES to use some sort of rifle, but when you are running around on the map it is best to have the shotgun equipped in case there is someone camping close by.

you called 'players who refuse to use the AR' garbage. that is an exact quote. since (if they exist) they only use the shotgun, then they play differently then you. so my point is valid.

i don't believe i ever said whether or not i only use the gnasher, (i may be wrong on that, is quite late and i cant be bothered to sift through the pages) but i dont, i mix my gnasher and lancer dependant on the situation. there are 2 maps that i do switch directly to gnasher at the start and those are checkout and raven down. in my opinion they are purely shotgun battle maps. i've never killed anyone or been killed by a rifle on either of those maps.

in relation to nulgaths post, you learn to ignore them. Laughing

and once again, towards the end of your post (in relation to my previous post) you call people garbage. i will ask you this question again, that i have asked before and you ignore: Who are you to determine who is good and who is bad? are you some sort of god on gears of war?

i consider myself to be a decent player, but yesterday i had a 3 match run of deaths outweighing kills. so am i 'garbage' or was i having a bad session?

i wouldn't attempt to change your forum behaviour unless you broke the forum rules.

i'm really not interested in getting into a flame war with you so shall we just leave it with: everyone play as they wish when you're in a team of randoms. if you want structured teamwork then you will have to go into matches with a party (at least 3 i'd say)

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PostSubject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns!   Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:33 am

[quote="TheMeInTeam
So, in other words you claim to agree with him but then spend a paragraph telling us that my point (not over-using one weapon to the point of hurting one's own team...and how does only using 1 weapon not make the game stale? You're clearly using all of them) is the one you actually practice and agree with :/.[/quote]

Now you're just reading things the way you want to see them.

BigStu CLEARLY states that "if everyone played exactly the same then this would be a boring game."

This is the point I highlighted; this is the point I was agreeing with.

I was simply explaining that there are many different ways to play, including both using all weapons and using only one weapon. without this option, the game would get stale. This has nothing to do with your point.

You claim to be all about being a "team player", but I think your username (TheMeInTeam) tells the story a little better.

Feel free to rant on, disagree with me, show me all the ways I'm wrong and/or completely siding with you and just don't know it....that's what these forums are for.....

I respectfully choose to take a different stance than yours....good day sir! cheers


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PostSubject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns!   Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:11 pm

Quote :
BigStu CLEARLY states that "if everyone played exactly the same then this would be a boring game."

And from the beginning I've CLEARLY advocated against the singular use of a weapon and "play style".

What is, BY FAR, the most used weapon in this game? What is the thread topic? Can you honestly tell me that a majority of players aren't over-using one weapon, and therefore "playing the same"? Nope.

If the community wasn't well over half gnasher come hell or high water to the point where people ignore enemies in a shooter, this thread wouldn't exist. It's not like it's one guy running around with a gnasher as his only starting weapon used all game; it's literally over half of lobbies, and the players who do it hurt their team. If you were REALLY arguing against "stale" gameplay where a majority of players DO play exactly the same, then you are indeed weighing in on my side of this argument. Team lancer fire is NOT the commonplace tactic!

Quote :
You claim to be all about being a "team player", but I think your username (TheMeInTeam) tells the story a little better.

Speaking of irrelevant...you've definitely latched onto an irrelevant comment or two. However, I'm sure BigStu will be on here ANY MINUTE to chew you out for not knowing how I actually play lol. Otherwise, he's a tad hypocritical Wink.

Quote :
Feel free to rant on, disagree with me, show me all the ways I'm wrong and/or completely siding with you and just don't know it....that's what these forums are for.....

I respectfully choose to take a different stance than yours....good day sir! cheers

Okay. If you're going to bother to post in the thread at all, maybe you should explain that stance.

There are choices in this game that are clearly right and wrong. For example, I could claim that it's "my style" to run to frags, pick them up, and then throw one at my feet and stand on it. One could, using the same logic as having a gnasher out and refusing to switch to an AR to help a teammate in time, claim that deliberately killing oneself over and over again with frags as long as they're available is a "style".

Could you make an argument that such is an effective choice that helps one's own team win, over using a weapon to attack somebody? No, not really. So now I'm looking for legit arguments for using (or rather not using, since enemies are too far away) shotguns in some of the situations I've highlighted, and I'm not seeing any. That's because there aren't any.

While deliberate suicide with frags is a far more extreme example of bad play than choosing an improper weapon, it should illustrate the reality of the situation; there are plenty of situations where an AR (or shotgun) is an objectively superior option, and a "style" that chooses the wrong weapon can be demonstrably defined as poor play.

If you can define playing poorly on purpose as a "style", then and only then is it a rational claim that people making wonky weapon choices that leave points, kills, and wins on the table are merely showing differences in "style".
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PostSubject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns!   Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:10 am

TheMeInTeam wrote:


Speaking of irrelevant...you've definitely latched onto an irrelevant comment or two. However, I'm sure BigStu will be on here ANY MINUTE to chew you out for not knowing how I actually play lol. Otherwise, he's a tad hypocritical Wink.

you obviously missed my last post

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PostSubject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns!   Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:24 am

Oh please, Mr. BigStu, you best reprimand me so this fine gentleman don't thinks you be playin favorites with anyone.... Rolling Eyes Laughing


As far as explaining my stance, that's the beauty of the forum...I...Don't...Have....To...

I will simply agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Thank you for your time and enjoy the rest of your day! sunny

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PostSubject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns!   Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:24 am

^Yes, you can do virtually anything that doesn't explicitly violate forum rules.

But making statements without supportive arguments in a discussion forum is a smidge weak. If you're going to do avoid discussing the topic, why enter the discussion :p?
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